78 replies to this topic

[Master Maniac]

No speeches. No dramatics. No lengthy diatribes. I'm here to do Clan Tech for you.

You're welcome.

LRMs vs Clan LRMs
-----------------

Clan LRMs weigh less, take up less critical slots, and have no minimal range - therefore, they are automatically "better" than IS LRMs, right?

Wrong.

All the above should be true in MWO, but that's not the end of the differences.

Clans have quite the distaste for "support" tactics, and only resort to them sparingly and, even then, when strictly necessary. This should be reflected in CLRMs. Clan LRMs *CANNOT* lock without *direct* line of sight with their intended target. No piggybacking locks.

In exchange, Clan LRMs achieve lock very quickly - at roughly half the time it takes for IS LRM weapons - and with their lack of a minimal arming range, they are flexible weapons, useful at a variety of distances. They break lock all but instantly, however, so pilots must keep their reticule on target in order to fire with accuracy.

These differences give Clan LRMs a very unique flavor. Since they are tied to a 'Mech's fire control system, Clan and IS LRMs are not compatible with each other. This means that pilots seeking a pure support role are going to want to stick with Inner Sphere variants, while those who want a more flexible, multiple-role loadout might gravitate towards Clan LRMs.

CLRMs excel at softening up distant targets prior to an up-close engagement, and are quick and easy to handle. Their flight characteristics differ from standard LRMs in that they fire in a spread, and mid-flight they merge into a tighter cluster. This is intended to maximise the chance of scoring impacts on close-range targets. A side effect of this is much more spread-out damage the closer the target is to the shooter.

In light of this behavior, as well as the increased tonnage and space requirements for the bulky LRM launchers, Clan LRMs are by themselves a poor substitute for SRMs, although they can serve adequately in close combat should the need arise.

Also limiting the usefulness of the Clan LRM in close-in battle is the slow speed and sluggish maneuverability of the missiles themselves. Fast moving or low-profile targets can evade the better part of a salvo with relative ease due to the speed, spread, and vertical angle of attack when sufficiently close to the shooter. Clan LRMs find their "sweet spot" to be intermediate range engagements, in which target acquisition is easier for the pilot, and shot grouping becomes more consistent.

CONCISE: Clan LRMs demand a greater degree of skill than most weapons. They are extremely flexible and offer reliable damage output, but they require a very steady hand and a constant focus on a single target as locks break easily. The requirement to stay glued to a target for the duration of a salvo can result in tunnel vision, and can lead an unskilled pilot to an early death if they fail to mind their position and situation.

The reduced weight and critical slot consumption are also points of interest for Mechwarriors who wish to vary their 'Mech's loadout.
--------------------


Clan SRMs
---------------------

Clan SRMs are lighter than IS launchers, making them more effective backup weapons when tonnage is a concern. However, Clan SRM launchers are unable to dish out that stunning, ever-so-impressive wallop of close range single-shot damage that IS launchers are capable of, as they operate in staggered bursts due to their streamlined design. They are, however, much more accurate, and fly straighter and longer to their target.

---------------------


Lasers! (Our examples shall be ER Large Lasers compared with Clan ER Large Lasers)
---------------------

The general consensus is that Clan lasers are strictly *better* than their Inner Sphere counterparts. Chiefly, they do more damage, feature better range, have less weight, and occupy less slots. It doesn't seem at all unreasonable to simply label them "better" and leave it at that.

But that would be lazy.

In MWO, ER Large Lasers feature good range, 9 damage, and moderately high heat generation. They are also able to output the full capacity of their damage in a fairly short amount of time, thanks to a reasonably short beam duration.

Clan ER Large Lasers *do* indeed do more damage...if you can keep your beam on target long enough to deliver it. Yes, no freebies. The increased damage capacity of the bigger, beefier brother of the ER Large Laser must be delivered in the form of a full 0.75 seconds of additional beam discharge. That might not sound like much, but adding almost an entire second to the Clan ER LL's burn time is a really, really big deal. Instead of dealing 9 points of damage, with the Clan variant a pilot is able to score as much as 13 points in a single shot - but they have to work for it. The weapon actually does *less* damage than its standard variant in the same amount of time. In order to deliver maximum damage, the beam must be held on the enemy for a noticeably longer duration.

Keeping the beam on target for such a long time requires exceptional accuracy and focus, and the extra time spent burning directly translates into more time generating heat. Once the weapon is triggered, there's no stopping it until its duration is up, so the decision to fire the heat-heavy Clan ER Large Laser is not one to be made lightly. The lengthy burn time also means that those extra points of damage are likely to be spread around the various sections of a moving, fighting, and evasive enemy 'Mech, rather than concentrated on a single component. Skill, practice, and superior positioning can mitigate this effect.

The Clan ER LL enjoys a very generous maximum range boost over the already impressive standard variant, but again the increased beam duration comes into play. Extreme range engagement is more of a possibility with the Clan variant, but can be incredibly tricky with anything less than stellar aim.

CONCISE: Clan laser weapons require a much higher degree of skill than their IS counterparts. Core features include much increased damage, long beam burn times, *slightly* slower recharge durations, moderately increased heat generation, less overall weight, and less slot requirements. These characteristics run across the board with all classes of Clan laser weapons, from small to large.

Firing a Clan laser is riskier overall than firing an IS laser. Shot placement is much more important, and a steady hand is required to ensure the much-improved potential damage is placed effectively on the target. The weapons are much less forgiving, but ultimately more rewarding...and more punishing for players who carelessly discharge their weapons due to the increased heat generation and slightly slower recycling.

Chain fire can be an effective use of grouped Clan lasers. The increased damage, improved range, and greater overall utility of Clan lasers make them much more attractive - and viable - "side" weapons for rounding out a 'Mech's arsenal than their more nuanced Inner Sphere counterparts.

---------------------


CLAN PULSE LASERS!
---------------------

Oh, boy. The cat's out of the bag.

People are either going to love this, or hate it.

Clan pulse lasers function *nothing* like IS pulse lasers. Instead, they fire like Mechwarrior 3 pulse lasers.

*GASP*

For those not familiar with Mechwarrior 3, pulse lasers in that game were continous beam weapons that projected a constant beam for as long as the weapon was triggered. The beam would remain until the player let go of the weapon's trigger, or until the weapon's charge was fully consumed.

How would this work in MWO? Simple. It'd be much the same as before. A Clan Pulse Laser would feature a prominent colored bar in its weapon tab that would shrink as the weapon is fired. The color would phase from green to yellow, orange, and red as the bar depletes for further graphical reinforcement. This bar represents the weapon's charge state. In order to recharge, the weapon must not be fired until its cooldown time is allowed to pass, after which time the weapon's charge is restored fully.

The real trick here is that the player is free to spend the Clan Pulse Laser's charge as they please - they can essentially utilize the weapon's "duration" in whatever way they like by triggering the weapon at any time, so long as there is some charge remaining in the bar. The Clan Pulse Laser has the advantage of not forcing a pilot to discharge the weapon all in one go, generating full heat and forcing a delay between shots. These weapons can themselves be "pulsed" with timed button presses, maximizing accuracy in the right hands, and enabling more precise heat management. Important to note is the fact that the weapon must be left alone for its entire cooldown duration in order to recharge.

Even if the weapon is only half-way depleted of its charge, it must still go without being fired for the full cooldown in order to recharge. Discharging the weapon partially does not increase the charge bar's lifespan, or shorten its cooldown duration. Careful trigger discipline, and firing in short, controlled bursts provides no advantage other than spending the weapon's duration more wisely, with greater accuracy, and keeping heat levels low. As Pulse Lasers only generate heat when they are actively projecting a beam, skilled pilots can use the interruptable discharge to their advantage by cutting the weapon off when heat levels elevate.

Of course, this trigger discipline requires focus and attention. A full discharge from a Clan Pulse Laser produces more heat than a single discharge from their Inner Sphere contemporary - almost an additional half. Clan Pulse Lasers do much more damage, though, and with better range. However, their damage falloff at range is *greater* than IS Pulse Lasers, in that while their max range is increased, their full-damage, effective range is shorter. The Clan Pulse Laser's long maximum range but short full effective range further serves to make the weapon unique. The increased heat, damage, and range mean that heat/damage ratios *can* be more manageable, but at the same time they can be much more *unmanageable* if care is not exercised.

Clan Pulse Lasers can be a real treat to play with, with a heat scale and an interactivity factor that provide a dynamic, skill-based approach to combat. Heat management becomes very engaging, as pilots are tested second by second to decide which is more important - raw damage, or accuracy and staying power.

Plus, Clan Pulse Lasers "budda budda" as long as you hold the trigger. How cool is THAT?
-----------------------


Clan Autocannons

-----------------------

Lighter and more compact than IS Autocannons, but slightly more fragile, Clan Autocannons also feature some hefty recoil which can throw a pilot's aim way off target depending on the caliber. Clan Autocannons can be tough to pair with other weapons given the aim disruption, but the reduced weight and critical slot requirements make them very attractive.

Clan AC's utilize somewhat complicated feeding mechanisms due to the focus on compactness, which results in a slower reload and a reduced rate of fire. Used casings remain in the weapon's chamber for a longer duration, as well, causing a greater heat buildup.

-----------------------


OVERALL THEME: Well, you've read this far, so I might as well explain my position on this. MWO needs more weapons. It needs more weapon *variety,* and it doesn't necessarily have to be word-for-word consistent with canon, as all Mechwarrior computer games are considered "quasi-canonical" anyway. What's the word? Apocryphical? I'm sure I'm not spelling that correctly.

But, whatever. The point is that Clan weapons could have their own unique flavor. Their own brand of playstyle. Some of them might not be for everyone. Inner Sphere weapons could be great, reliable standbys, and mix and match well with Clan weapons (with some exceptions).

Clan weapons are in many ways better...but at what cost? That's the theme. They should be at times radically different. A Large Laser that weighs 4 tons and takes only one slot? Whoa! See, that's what we need more of. More flexibility is always a good thing.

How many support players are willing to sacrifice the ability to fire missiles at friendly locks, even if Clan tech allows for faster lockons, tighter volleys, and short range capability? How many brawlers are willing to load up on Clan lasers, knowing that their burn time requires arduous focus and great accuracy to be effective? Some players will do these things.

They'll learn, adapt, and play differently from the rest.

And *that* is how you do Clan Tech. No talk about "outclassing" weapons, no nonsense about how anything more "powerful" is inherently bad. Balance is bull. We don't want "balance." We don't want multi-colored variations of the same frikkin' laser beams. We want variety. Clan Tech is a great way to introduce a little of it, even if it means breaking canon a little bit. And I do mean "a little." Give the weapons pros and cons, and nature will take care of the rest.

Making the Clan ER Large Laser do one extra point of damage with 20% more heat, and maybe a slightly different firing sound, is just going to make us all mad.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Hmm I came here prepared to LOL and walk away thinking he may be on to something.


I definitely agree they should be different to the point that they are distinct without making IS weapons obsolete.That's really not optional, as otherwise Clan mechs are P2W.

[Stelar 7]

I notice you didn't touch on ERPPC or DHS. OR Endo/Ferro for 7 slots.

Most of your suggestions look like slightly different versions of what PGI already proposed. The basic theme, variety and weapons that don't obsolete the IS variant I agree with.

[Varent]

Nice post.

Why isnt it here?

http://mwomercs.com/...ctive-feedback/

[Master Maniac]

Stelar 7, on 30 December 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

I notice you didn't touch on ERPPC or DHS. OR Endo/Ferro for 7 slots.

Most of your suggestions look like slightly different versions of what PGI already proposed. The basic theme, variety and weapons that don't obsolete the IS variant I agree with.

To be honest, I kind of forgot about PPCs. "Gave up on them" is actually more accurate. At least at the moment.

And I didn't touch Endo because THAT'S NOT A CLAN WEAPON.

And, no, my proposals were NOT similar to PGI's. First and foremost, I never suggested arbitrarily reducing the damage of Clan LRMs at close range for no reason whatsoever.

Varent, on 30 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Nice post.

Why isnt it here?

http://mwomercs.com/...ctive-feedback/

Because oh gosh oh my is that thread a black gaping hole of no possible return. It's also mostly a "feedback" thread for a response to their proposals - not really meant to be a place to make suggestions of your own.

At least my interpretation, anyway.

[Stelar 7]

Master Maniac, on 30 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

To be honest, I kind of forgot about PPCs. "Gave up on them" is actually more accurate. At least at the moment.

And I didn't touch Endo because THAT'S NOT A CLAN WEAPON.

And, no, my proposals were NOT similar to PGI's. First and foremost, I never suggested arbitrarily reducing the damage of Clan LRMs at close range for no reason whatsoever.

Sure you did, your big cloud is going to have misses.. That is just a different damage reduction mechanic with some spread to go with it.

I disagree about Endo and FF not being "weapons". That is at best a semantics debate as both give more tonnage and use less crits, which enables, among other things, lots more LRM launchers.

I don't blame you for not messing with the ERPPC, they were also skipped by PGI and unless they get a significant mechanic change they will be just as horrifying as they were in TT.

The UAC 20 will also be grotesque... it will be interesting if they implement things like the rotary ac to offset, I hope not, it will be even worse than UAC20 with the current fire mechanic.

I do like your idea about not being able to use other clanners target locks. I think that should be implemented. It would be interesting to see other clanish elements, like a loss of income (I like the idea of a seperate clan currency called honor) for kill assists. I would also deny clans access to arty and air strike and make them significantly less expensive for IS pilots.

[SiliconAngel]

I really love the ideas for the weapons and would love to see them implimented. I think it would make mech building really fun and give many options for upgrading each varient.

[Master Maniac]

Stelar 7, on 30 December 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Sure you did, your big cloud is going to have misses.. That is just a different damage reduction mechanic with some spread to go with it.

I disagree about Endo and FF not being "weapons". That is at best a semantics debate as both give more tonnage and use less crits, which enables, among other things, lots more LRM launchers.

I don't blame you for not messing with the ERPPC, they were also skipped by PGI and unless they get a significant mechanic change they will be just as horrifying as they were in TT.

The UAC 20 will also be grotesque... it will be interesting if they implement things like the rotary ac to offset, I hope not, it will be even worse than UAC20 with the current fire mechanic.

I do like your idea about not being able to use other clanners target locks. I think that should be implemented. It would be interesting to see other clanish elements, like a loss of income (I like the idea of a seperate clan currency called honor) for kill assists. I would also deny clans access to arty and air strike and make them significantly less expensive for IS pilots.

I can further clarify the difference between my suggestions and PGI's:

They suggest arbitrarily INCREASING tonnage of some Clan weapons. I suggest the exact opposite. Also, my "big cloud" is a completely different mechanic from simply reducing damage values. I should not have to explain why.

As far as the ER LL comparison goes, I actually gave my opinion some depth and certainty as opposed to simply suggesting that "we maybe kinda sort might go with higher damage/range/heat but we really don't know how much and nothing's set in stone."

"That being said, when dealing with core values like tonnage or crits, we risk the chance of breaking a standard build in a future Clan BattleMech in terms of its weight capacity or space capacity. This is why this third area of balancing new mechanics takes the longest time and will have to be revisited now and again."

- From the dev's release. TONNAGE AND CRITS SHOULD NOT BE ALTERED. Ever. At least not as an arbitrary means of adding a highly superficial "con" to the weapon.

Plus, as an aside, their idea of how you might customize Clan 'Mechs is blatantly awful, and I've already voiced my opposition to it.

Edited by Master Maniac, 30 December 2013 - 04:44 PM.

[Alcom Isst]

PGI has some months to figure out how they are going to balance clan weapons. This is the idea I want them to use. I wonder what would get their attention. Print it out and mail it in a $500 golden envelope?

[Master Maniac]

Alcom Isst, on 30 December 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

PGI has some months to figure out how they are going to balance clan weapons. This is the idea I want them to use. I wonder what would get their attention. Print it out and mail it in a $500 golden envelope?

I don't know if I'd be brave enough to open an envelope like that. o_o But it would certainly get my attention. :-)

[FupDup]

Personally, I think that Clan energy weapons should actually be converged to standard range instead of remaining ER. The reason for this heretical believe is a reference to Randall Bill's quote on how he would want to rebuild Clan tech from scratch:

Randall Bills said:

MWO: Is there any part of MechWarrior you’d love to just take straight out of canon?

RB: I’ve said many times over the years that if I’d been there the game mechanics of the Clan weaponry would be very different. It’s not just how powerful those weapons are, but that it seemed from the get go to violate the story aesthetics as presented.

Here were these great, in-your-face warriors and yet they had weapons that allowed a player, in game to simply walk backwards and fire at crazy distances to down your enemy. When we introduced the Clan Heavy Lasers years ago those were more along the lines of what I thought the Clans should’ve had all along…really dangerous and powerful weapons, but shortish range, where the Clanner would be in his element, able to take down 3 and 4 enemy BattleMechs in a whirling dervish of expert maneuvering and markmanship.

Basically, the Clan personality that lore attempted to establish was elite warriors of immense skill, but the TT game mechanics made them into cowardly noobs who spent the entire match walking backwards and firing ER Large Lasers at their opponents with total impunity. What I'm suggesting is for the Clan ER weapons (including PPCs) to be cut down to standard range to help mirror the short-medium range bracket where they're "supposed" to dominate.

So, compared to IS energy weapons, they would have increased damage (and in the case of the large, reduced weight + slots) at the downside of increased heat and perhaps some duration/cooldown adjustments.

[Satan n stuff]

I've been thinking about the LRMs a lot myself, seeing as they're by far the biggest problem and the solution proposed by PGI would break most stock clan builds. I had the idea of making all clan LRMs fly at a much lower angle than IS LRMs, to make it impossible to use indirect fire with them, and because that's still potentially a massive amount of firepower making the missiles fly slower ( say 100 M/s, the same speed LRMs were before it was buffed ) to compensate. The turn rate of the missiles could be reduced too to make them less viable at close range, if needed.

Either way I agree clan LRMs shouldn't work as indirect fire weapons as the clanners despise such "dishonorable" tactics.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 31 December 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Good work, OP. Well-thought out, and sounds like a decent plan given the rest of the game so far. Shame we'll likely never see it, for those same reasons...

Also, budda-budda-ad-infinitum for CPL's? Yes please.

[Slepnir]

other than clan LRMs being LOS only I pretty well disagree with everything else, sorry but clans are supposed to be better not just different.

[I3lackI2ogue]

so what youre suggesting is that PGI not mess with the clan weapons statistically, but rather give them playstylistic (new word) changes to differentiate them from their IS counterparts.

not make them better per se, but different (albeit stronger) ?

Edited by I3lackI2ogue, 31 December 2013 - 05:45 AM.

[DaZur]

I have to mull these suggestions over a bit... At face value, they appear logical and practical. That said... something doesn't feel right in my head.

In particular, I think I'm lest comfortable with cLRM suggestion... In fairness, I'm not especially fond of PGIs proposition either. That said, in all honestly... It might simply be the cLRM at it's core design. As stated by PGI, conically they ultimately are really streak missiles in sheeps LRM clothing.

All being said... nicely presented thoughts OP.

Edited by DaZur, 31 December 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

Logged in just to like your post.

Well done!

[Varent]

Master Maniac, on 30 December 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

No speeches. No dramatics. No lengthy diatribes. I'm here to do Clan Tech for you.

You're welcome.

LRMs vs Clan LRMs
-----------------

Clan LRMs weigh less, take up less critical slots, and have no minimal range - therefore, they are automatically "better" than IS LRMs, right?

Wrong.

All the above should be true in MWO, but that's not the end of the differences.

Clans have quite the distaste for "support" tactics, and only resort to them sparingly and, even then, when strictly necessary. This should be reflected in CLRMs. Clan LRMs *CANNOT* lock without *direct* line of sight with their intended target. No piggybacking locks.

In exchange, Clan LRMs achieve lock very quickly - at roughly half the time it takes for IS LRM weapons - and with their lack of a minimal arming range, they are flexible weapons, useful at a variety of distances. They break lock all but instantly, however, so pilots must keep their reticule on target in order to fire with accuracy.

These differences give Clan LRMs a very unique flavor. Since they are tied to a 'Mech's fire control system, Clan and IS LRMs are not compatible with each other. This means that pilots seeking a pure support role are going to want to stick with Inner Sphere variants, while those who want a more flexible, multiple-role loadout might gravitate towards Clan LRMs.

CLRMs excel at softening up distant targets prior to an up-close engagement, and are quick and easy to handle. Their flight characteristics differ from standard LRMs in that they fire in a spread, and mid-flight they merge into a tighter cluster. This is intended to maximise the chance of scoring impacts on close-range targets. A side effect of this is much more spread-out damage the closer the target is to the shooter.

In light of this behavior, as well as the increased tonnage and space requirements for the bulky LRM launchers, Clan LRMs are by themselves a poor substitute for SRMs, although they can serve adequately in close combat should the need arise.

Also limiting the usefulness of the Clan LRM in close-in battle is the slow speed and sluggish maneuverability of the missiles themselves. Fast moving or low-profile targets can evade the better part of a salvo with relative ease due to the speed, spread, and vertical angle of attack when sufficiently close to the shooter. Clan LRMs find their "sweet spot" to be intermediate range engagements, in which target acquisition is easier for the pilot, and shot grouping becomes more consistent.

CONCISE: Clan LRMs demand a greater degree of skill than most weapons. They are extremely flexible and offer reliable damage output, but they require a very steady hand and a constant focus on a single target as locks break easily. The requirement to stay glued to a target for the duration of a salvo can result in tunnel vision, and can lead an unskilled pilot to an early death if they fail to mind their position and situation.

The reduced weight and critical slot consumption are also points of interest for Mechwarriors who wish to vary their 'Mech's loadout.
--------------------


Clan SRMs
---------------------

Clan SRMs are lighter than IS launchers, making them more effective backup weapons when tonnage is a concern. However, Clan SRM launchers are unable to dish out that stunning, ever-so-impressive wallop of close range single-shot damage that IS launchers are capable of, as they operate in staggered bursts due to their streamlined design. They are, however, much more accurate, and fly straighter and longer to their target.

---------------------


Lasers! (Our examples shall be ER Large Lasers compared with Clan ER Large Lasers)
---------------------

The general consensus is that Clan lasers are strictly *better* than their Inner Sphere counterparts. Chiefly, they do more damage, feature better range, have less weight, and occupy less slots. It doesn't seem at all unreasonable to simply label them "better" and leave it at that.

But that would be lazy.

In MWO, ER Large Lasers feature good range, 9 damage, and moderately high heat generation. They are also able to output the full capacity of their damage in a fairly short amount of time, thanks to a reasonably short beam duration.

Clan ER Large Lasers *do* indeed do more damage...if you can keep your beam on target long enough to deliver it. Yes, no freebies. The increased damage capacity of the bigger, beefier brother of the ER Large Laser must be delivered in the form of a full 0.75 seconds of additional beam discharge. That might not sound like much, but adding almost an entire second to the Clan ER LL's burn time is a really, really big deal. Instead of dealing 9 points of damage, with the Clan variant a pilot is able to score as much as 13 points in a single shot - but they have to work for it. The weapon actually does *less* damage than its standard variant in the same amount of time. In order to deliver maximum damage, the beam must be held on the enemy for a noticeably longer duration.

Keeping the beam on target for such a long time requires exceptional accuracy and focus, and the extra time spent burning directly translates into more time generating heat. Once the weapon is triggered, there's no stopping it until its duration is up, so the decision to fire the heat-heavy Clan ER Large Laser is not one to be made lightly. The lengthy burn time also means that those extra points of damage are likely to be spread around the various sections of a moving, fighting, and evasive enemy 'Mech, rather than concentrated on a single component. Skill, practice, and superior positioning can mitigate this effect.

The Clan ER LL enjoys a very generous maximum range boost over the already impressive standard variant, but again the increased beam duration comes into play. Extreme range engagement is more of a possibility with the Clan variant, but can be incredibly tricky with anything less than stellar aim.

CONCISE: Clan laser weapons require a much higher degree of skill than their IS counterparts. Core features include much increased damage, long beam burn times, *slightly* slower recharge durations, moderately increased heat generation, less overall weight, and less slot requirements. These characteristics run across the board with all classes of Clan laser weapons, from small to large.

Firing a Clan laser is riskier overall than firing an IS laser. Shot placement is much more important, and a steady hand is required to ensure the much-improved potential damage is placed effectively on the target. The weapons are much less forgiving, but ultimately more rewarding...and more punishing for players who carelessly discharge their weapons due to the increased heat generation and slightly slower recycling.

Chain fire can be an effective use of grouped Clan lasers. The increased damage, improved range, and greater overall utility of Clan lasers make them much more attractive - and viable - "side" weapons for rounding out a 'Mech's arsenal than their more nuanced Inner Sphere counterparts.

---------------------


CLAN PULSE LASERS!
---------------------

Oh, boy. The cat's out of the bag.

People are either going to love this, or hate it.

Clan pulse lasers function *nothing* like IS pulse lasers. Instead, they fire like Mechwarrior 3 pulse lasers.

*GASP*

For those not familiar with Mechwarrior 3, pulse lasers in that game were continous beam weapons that projected a constant beam for as long as the weapon was triggered. The beam would remain until the player let go of the weapon's trigger, or until the weapon's charge was fully consumed.

How would this work in MWO? Simple. It'd be much the same as before. A Clan Pulse Laser would feature a prominent colored bar in its weapon tab that would shrink as the weapon is fired. The color would phase from green to yellow, orange, and red as the bar depletes for further graphical reinforcement. This bar represents the weapon's charge state. In order to recharge, the weapon must not be fired until its cooldown time is allowed to pass, after which time the weapon's charge is restored fully.

The real trick here is that the player is free to spend the Clan Pulse Laser's charge as they please - they can essentially utilize the weapon's "duration" in whatever way they like by triggering the weapon at any time, so long as there is some charge remaining in the bar. The Clan Pulse Laser has the advantage of not forcing a pilot to discharge the weapon all in one go, generating full heat and forcing a delay between shots. These weapons can themselves be "pulsed" with timed button presses, maximizing accuracy in the right hands, and enabling more precise heat management. Important to note is the fact that the weapon must be left alone for its entire cooldown duration in order to recharge.

Even if the weapon is only half-way depleted of its charge, it must still go without being fired for the full cooldown in order to recharge. Discharging the weapon partially does not increase the charge bar's lifespan, or shorten its cooldown duration. Careful trigger discipline, and firing in short, controlled bursts provides no advantage other than spending the weapon's duration more wisely, with greater accuracy, and keeping heat levels low. As Pulse Lasers only generate heat when they are actively projecting a beam, skilled pilots can use the interruptable discharge to their advantage by cutting the weapon off when heat levels elevate.

Of course, this trigger discipline requires focus and attention. A full discharge from a Clan Pulse Laser produces more heat than a single discharge from their Inner Sphere contemporary - almost an additional half. Clan Pulse Lasers do much more damage, though, and with better range. However, their damage falloff at range is *greater* than IS Pulse Lasers, in that while their max range is increased, their full-damage, effective range is shorter. The Clan Pulse Laser's long maximum range but short full effective range further serves to make the weapon unique. The increased heat, damage, and range mean that heat/damage ratios *can* be more manageable, but at the same time they can be much more *unmanageable* if care is not exercised.

Clan Pulse Lasers can be a real treat to play with, with a heat scale and an interactivity factor that provide a dynamic, skill-based approach to combat. Heat management becomes very engaging, as pilots are tested second by second to decide which is more important - raw damage, or accuracy and staying power.

Plus, Clan Pulse Lasers "budda budda" as long as you hold the trigger. How cool is THAT?
-----------------------


Clan Autocannons

-----------------------

Lighter and more compact than IS Autocannons, but slightly more fragile, Clan Autocannons also feature some hefty recoil which can throw a pilot's aim way off target depending on the caliber. Clan Autocannons can be tough to pair with other weapons given the aim disruption, but the reduced weight and critical slot requirements make them very attractive.

Clan AC's utilize somewhat complicated feeding mechanisms due to the focus on compactness, which results in a slower reload and a reduced rate of fire. Used casings remain in the weapon's chamber for a longer duration, as well, causing a greater heat buildup.

-----------------------


OVERALL THEME: Well, you've read this far, so I might as well explain my position on this. MWO needs more weapons. It needs more weapon *variety,* and it doesn't necessarily have to be word-for-word consistent with canon, as all Mechwarrior computer games are considered "quasi-canonical" anyway. What's the word? Apocryphical? I'm sure I'm not spelling that correctly.

But, whatever. The point is that Clan weapons could have their own unique flavor. Their own brand of playstyle. Some of them might not be for everyone. Inner Sphere weapons could be great, reliable standbys, and mix and match well with Clan weapons (with some exceptions).

Clan weapons are in many ways better...but at what cost? That's the theme. They should be at times radically different. A Large Laser that weighs 4 tons and takes only one slot? Whoa! See, that's what we need more of. More flexibility is always a good thing.

How many support players are willing to sacrifice the ability to fire missiles at friendly locks, even if Clan tech allows for faster lockons, tighter volleys, and short range capability? How many brawlers are willing to load up on Clan lasers, knowing that their burn time requires arduous focus and great accuracy to be effective? Some players will do these things.

They'll learn, adapt, and play differently from the rest.

And *that* is how you do Clan Tech. No talk about "outclassing" weapons, no nonsense about how anything more "powerful" is inherently bad. Balance is bull. We don't want "balance." We don't want multi-colored variations of the same frikkin' laser beams. We want variety. Clan Tech is a great way to introduce a little of it, even if it means breaking canon a little bit. And I do mean "a little." Give the weapons pros and cons, and nature will take care of the rest.

Making the Clan ER Large Laser do one extra point of damage with 20% more heat, and maybe a slightly different firing sound, is just going to make us all mad.

overall like the idea... .because.. .this is exactly what pgi said they were already going to do basically... give all the weapons a unique feel so that they would be balanced with inner sphere weapons in different ways....

Or at least I believe thats what your elluding too. If your not and elluding to wanting them to be stronger in general still then.. ya no....

[Almond Brown]

Quote

In exchange, Clan LRMs achieve lock very quickly - at roughly half the time it takes for IS LRM weapons - and with their lack of a minimal arming range, they are flexible weapons, useful at a variety of distances. They break lock all but instantly, however, so pilots must keep their reticule on target in order to fire with accuracy.

Sounds to me like a Clan warrior, who the MWO community ain't btw, will have to stand out in the open, get a quick lock and then continue to track said missiles all the way to that target or lose lock instantly with a missile that travels at a proposed 100m/s?

Those cLRM missiles would suck beyond bad and tears would flow day one. Remember, the Community has to be able to use things to some affect or it is a waste. They will care little about Clan honor when facing down PPC/AC5 pop-tarts, despite being in the bad-*** Clan Mechs, with limited armor and with this, rather poor(total bs) cLRMs with which to respond with.

Sorry good sir, cannot comment on the rest as this one item stopped me cold.

Edited by Almond Brown, 31 December 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Meh, OP, me thinks you should take a looksie playthrough of MW:LL to examine IS LRMs and Clan LRMs - both can use indirect fire or direct fire. Or rather all those weapons you referred to "done right." They already "did" Clan Tech (and all tech in general) the right way.

Most damning of all is that MWO-ECM™ still blocks LRMs locking in direct line of sight, so that makes CLRMs double useless with that idea.

In any case, we can expect something shallow for MWO that does not contain the OP's ideas, and something of a certain designer's pet project. We can write up lengthy, in-depth posts, but in the end what some designer decides is 'teh bestest idea evar' (*cough*heatsinks*cough*; *cough*ghost heat*cough*) makes it into the game.

Edited by General Taskeen, 31 December 2013 - 07:37 AM.